The Southeast Asia Update Part 2

JOY: Welcome to God’s Church on the Move, the podcast that takes you to the spiritual hotspots around the world where God is actively at work. With me in the studio today are Ron and Charis Pearce. Welcome, guys.

RON/CHARIS: Hi, Joy.

JOY: Okay, so I hear that you have been traveling and you’re going to give us an update as to where you’ve been. I’m assuming a spiritual hotspot.

RON: We were! Charis and I traveled together, shall I say.

CHARIS: Doesn’t happen very often.

JOY: No, that’s so nice. I’m excited.

RON: We usually break it up a little bit, but we were on the move in Southeast Asia primarily. And so we had a lot of folks from various countries, and we have to be careful, folks, as to not divulge where we were or who we were meeting with, because some of these are closed, restricted-access sort of situations. So we were there meeting with these leaders and pastors, and it was great. We crunched it in.

CHARIS: We did! What was it? Five countries in ten days. It was packed.

JOY: It was packed.
CHARIS: In ten days, yeah.
RON: So we were up late and moving around, and we got it done.

So what we’re going to do is try to talk to you today about Southeast Asia, particularly Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos. Now, why are we dividing those ones out?
A little bit of Thailand, I guess.

CHARIS: A little bit, yeah.
RON: Just a little bit.

Why are we doing this? Well, that part of the world is more of a zone than individual countries. The borders are semi-porous. People of different tribal groups live on each side of the border. So you’ve got tribal sort of identification systems going on. This is the Peru tribe, they say, and this is the Hmong, and you go like that. Well, they don’t know where borders are in the middle of a jungle. So they live everywhere, and they go over here and marry, and they’re on either side of the river, you might say.

JOY: So you’ll have Hmong in Vietnam, Cambodia.

Yeah, they sort of move around a little bit, and they go up to China as well. So yeah, this is the sort of situation we’re dealing with. So we deal with a major church planting network that encompasses pretty well all of the Southeast Asia countries that I just mentioned. And they divided up for us because they know the boundaries, and the languages are somewhat different at times, the major languages of the country. But they divide it up and bring in workers from this zone. But the similarities are incredible amongst what’s going on there.

Now, backing up from that, what is the situation?
Well, it’s generally the same, spiritually and religiously. The Vietnam situation is that there’s sporadic persecution of Christians in certain zones. It all depends upon who’s in the police station in one area compared to another area. There’s a lot of politics. It comes in waves of persecution, then it calms down. And then you go to a country like Laos that’s just more strict, more communist, shall we say, and their penalty system is a lot greater. But still, a great number of people coming to the Lord.

Then you get down into Cambodia — freer — and it’s quite different. And so then you get over to Thailand, well, that’s really free. There hasn’t been much spiritual hunger there amongst the people over the years, but it’s starting to come around, we heard this time. So this is one of the biggest things that we have to do: try to sort out, okay, what is the spiritual dynamic? What is the fire? How strong is it in these various zones?

The one pastor we were talking to explained that you were talking about persecution in levels in different areas, and he was saying that sometimes you’ll have the chief of police, his mom might be a believer, and so he’s a little bit more lenient on the church in that area, versus another one who is adamantly against believers, and that area might be a bit tougher. So it really depends on all the different dynamics.

There’s one area called Ho Chi Minh’s homeland, Uncle Ho’s major area, and that’s where communism was sort of like in the bloodstream, and they are strict, really, really strict. And therefore, when they say Uncle Ho’s homeland churches, those are the guys that really suffer.

JOY: Is that in Vietnam?
RON: It’s in Vietnam.

And so when we move around through these stories right now, you might think, well, I thought it was this, or I thought it was that. It’s a little bit of everything everywhere, and it depends upon the zone, the people group, the situation, who’s related to who, as Charis pointed out. It’s everything. So there’s no blanket statement saying that Vietnam has more persecution than Cambodia or Laos. It really is situational.

It’s a general overview. In other words, if you have the strictest — more persecution, more restrictions, more pressure — you’d be Laos on top, probably. And then you’d go down to Vietnam, secondly. Then you would go to Cambodia, which has the least in that three. And then after that, you go to virtual freedom in Thailand. So there are levels, but that’s a broad statement, okay?

So, Charis, because you don’t get there as often as I do, give me your impression of Vietnam, some of the things, and then we can go through some stories and tell them.

CHARIS: Overall, I’ve been to Vietnam many times, but this trip, I found that, especially in certain areas, the focus on church planting and how they’re expanding — I have in my notes a few of the different church planters were talking about how there’s an increase in miracles, and that’s why there’s such growth, which I found fascinating because that’s what we’re seeing in so many countries. So I found, overall, that was something that jumped out — more miracles than before.

RON: Exactly, and that’s spreading now around the world. It’s really the one identifier, as I call it, of what God is doing. 

JOY: Because in the past, Vietnam wasn’t heavily miracles. It was a lot of prayer.
No, it’s always been strong on miracles, but now it’s really expanded and gone crazy.

JOY: For instance, there’s another area there where you talk about the Christians being penalized for following the Lord or preaching or sharing.

RON: And, Charis, touch on that one.

CHARIS: So, when we were — our translator was translating, and a few times with different church planters, he was using the word ​“sharing,” and then he would correct himself and use our word, which is ​“evangelist.” And so, I found that fascinating, that their term, the way they put it, is they’re sharers, not evangelists, which I thought was very accurate.

JOY: I like that way better.

CHARIS: Sharers, sharing the Gospel. And they find different ways with different cultures, different people, to share the Gospel.

RON: That’s right. And that’s the big thing.

Now, that being said, here’s one story that came out. They had this woman who had been beaten. There were ten new believers. They were all taken by the police. They took this one man, and they said, you’re the leader — the sharer, I think it was. And they said, okay, you’re going to stand on one leg for three hours and put your head against the wall.

JOY: That’s a creative way to—

RON: And they said, if you can do this, then you can be a sharer, and you can follow the Lord, and that’s okay. So, he went, and that’s very, very difficult. That takes miraculous strength — not necessarily healing. That takes supernatural strength.

So, he did that, stood on one leg for three hours with his head against the wall, etc. Well, just before the three hours came, police came over and kicked his leg out from under him, and he fell to the ground. And they said, okay, you can’t share because you didn’t stand on your leg for three hours.

In other words, it’s this sort of game that they play to try to harass — that might be the best way — harass the believers and find tricky little ways to do it. But their determination to share is everywhere in Vietnam now, and it’s reinforced by the miracles that we kept hearing about.

CHARIS: I’ll share. I’ll start with one of the miracles.

RON: Yeah, go for it.

CHARIS: There was a 22-year-old that had been demon-possessed for five years. So, that started at a pretty young age. This young man would attack anybody that came near him. It was so bad that the family had to lock him up in a small room so he wouldn’t attack anybody else. The church planter came in and asked if they could pray for him. And he prayed for him, and the Lord healed him immediately. And the family of six became believers because of that miracle. Yeah.

JOY: Wow.

CHARIS: Yeah.

RON: And those were so common in all the stories.
Exactly. They just kept going. I remember thinking to myself, we would have just institutionalized somebody like that, and they would be locked up alright, but in a different way. Well, they don’t have those options over there. So, they were probably going to the witch doctors and whoever else they could. And God just did it in a moment, but everybody was watching.

And that’s another thing that I noticed, is that there’s more of an inquisitiveness amongst unbelievers now in Southeast Asia than I’ve ever seen. And God is turning up to do the miracles so that they will listen.

In fact, the major leader — I’ve got a note here — he said, we’ve never had so many people asking questions about the Bible and about being a Christian. And this was in one of those, Charis, one of those stories when he popped in, the leader, and reinforced it. And I thought, that’s an interesting way of doing it.

Ron: We’re going to hop — well, I’m going to hop right now — over to the situation in Laos. This is something I first learned about when I was there once with another organization. What struck me was the intensity in Laos: both the persecution the believers face and, at the same time, the intensity of their stand — how they say, ​“You cannot intimidate me. I will believe no matter what.”

They’ve now established these Zoom rooms throughout Southeast Asia, and one of these Zoom rooms connected into a village where they had opened four new churches. There were already 22 churches in the area, and they were adding six more. But their great desire was for training. So they set up this Zoom room, brought in all the leaders, and started working on that.

From my notes, I see they ran into some resistance. One of the stories they shared was about something they called ​“the jungle body” — a local term. They said there was nothing sadder than what happened: they tried every treatment, every method, even went to the witch doctor. But then the pastor came, prayed, and the situation was completely turned around.

What’s fascinating is how determined they are to keep studying and growing. For those who aren’t familiar, these Zoom rooms are often set up deep in the jungle, using computer generators and satellite equipment, connected back to the head office. The teachers sit at the main site and teach over the Internet, and the people on the other end will sit there all day long — five days a week — soaking up everything, just studying the Word of God.

Karen: That’s amazing.

Ron: I’ve seen pictures of this. It’s incredible.

One story I found particularly fascinating was about a 16-year-old girl who was possessed. Her mother took her to the hospital, but the hospital couldn’t help. The mother ended up selling everything to pay the witch doctor, but still, nothing worked. Finally, a pastor came, prayed, and the girl was healed completely.

But here’s the part that really touched me: because the mother had sold everything, they had nowhere to live. Now, both the mother and daughter are living at the church. So it’s not just about winning people to the Lord for numbers — it’s about loving them, too.

Karen: Exactly. That’s a big difference.

Ron: Yeah! It’s pretty amazing that they sold everything, and in the end, it was the care from the church that truly healed and restored them.

Here’s another story I found interesting, especially because we were involved without even realizing it.

There were nine families we supported in an area near the Vietnam border. These believers were being heavily persecuted — the villagers were burning their crops, beating them, even burning down homes. One man accepted the Lord, and his house was burned down. Still, he kept going.

Now, in this village, there was a couple — husband and wife — both believers. The village told them, ​“If you stay believers, we’re going to kick you out.” The husband said, ​“I’m not a believer anymore.” But the wife stood strong: ​“I am a believer.” They had two kids. One child stayed with the dad, and the wife, who was pregnant at the time, left the village with the other child.

She was kicked out for three years. After that time, the husband realized he wanted to be a believer too. He came to his wife and said, ​“I want to come back.” She asked, ​“Are you coming back because you miss me — or because you realize you need to follow Jesus?” He said, ​“I’m coming back because I want to follow Jesus.”

Now they’re back together — not in the original village, but they’ve joined with others. That group has grown to 45 members! There are nine families, and they’ve essentially built a new village on the outskirts.

CHARIS: Right, I remember this — the leadership said we had to go in and help them reestablish outside the village, and we’ve been able to help.

RON: Exactly. We helped them set up, providing things like aluminum for roofing, after they hauled wood from the jungle to build the houses. Now it’s like a secondary village, fully established. They were kicked out, yes, but they were also given new livelihood.

But here’s the bottom line: standing for Jesus in these regions comes at a cost. Every village responds differently, but persecution is a general practice in many of these areas. So we should probably wrap this up. One last story — what stood out to you most?

CHARIS: Oh, I know what stood out to me!

For me, it was the fact that this movement is growing so fast that the government has started watching them. There’s so much growth, so many people coming to the Lord, that the government has taken notice. That’s why they’re expanding the Zoom rooms and adding more training opportunities.

Everyone wants to study the Bible now. And to support this, they need two things: Bibles, so that people can read and study for themselves, and training, to raise up pastors, church planters, and leaders.

So, the biggest takeaway for me was seeing how God is using technology and multiplying their efforts — and how, everywhere you look, there’s a miracle. God is moving in such a powerful way across Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia.

JOY: That’s very exciting! If you’re listening to this, you can find out more on our website.